Discuss The TD Deals

Discussion in 'Hockey Talk' started by m_peroni, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. m_peroni

    m_peroni Hall of Fame

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    Hal Gil to Nashville?

    Solid move for the Preds. Solidifies their defense a lot.

    Dominic Moore to San Jose. Good depth move, but the Sharks need more to stop the slump.

    Nik Grossman to the Flyers. Adding a big d-man to reenforce the depth on the blueline helps in that department, but not the goaltending.

    Kubina to Flyers. This trade is a difference maker because of what Kubina brings to the team. Definitely a solid d-man to have in the playoffs.

    Detroit dropped Quincey on waivers in his young career only to take him again for a 1st rounder. Nonetheless he fits the Red Wings well. The Bolts traded away Downie for a first rounder, which isn't bad either. The Avs get a solid forward.

    Phoenix acquires Vermette. I think Vermette will revitalize in Phoenix and provide excellent speed and skill.

    Carter to LA. LA reunited the troublesome duo that were kicked out of Philly. Good trade for the Kings on paper as Jack Johnson was not doing as well as hoped there, but the Blue Jackets get rid of a problem and acquire a very good young d-man and a 1st rounder.

    Zidlicky to NJD. Good addition for PP purposes, despite Zidlicky having below average numbers this season, but the price seemed a bit steep to get the troubled 35-year-old.

    Wolski to Panthers. For a third rounder and a career minor leaguer, an excellent trade for the Rangers as they had no use for Wolski and were about to waive him. The Panthers send a 3rd rounder for a player that can either thrive in Florida as they needed a skilled winger with size, or for a player that may look very lazy and not re-signable in July.
     
  2. m_peroni

    m_peroni Hall of Fame

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    Buffalo just ass raped Vancouver. Kassian is a solid player in the long-run, but Hodgson as a center guy who already plays well at the NHL? Sabres win this one by miles.
     
  3. Sir Rodney

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    Hi Mick,

    Just a tad over the top I would suggest. I will admit that Buffalo got the best player in the deal if that's as far as you want to look. Interesting how many of the analysts were ranking Marc-Andre Gragnani as a more key component than Kassian. The Canucks had some very specific goals in their trading. They wanted size and they didn't appear concerned at all about the players they got back in that particular trade being able to play top six forward minutes or top four defense now. A solid player in the long run with size sounds good enough. I don't know enough about Gragnani to see where he will fit short term but from what I have heard, I think there's every reason to be satisfied with the deal. In Gillis' post draft interview, he was asked specifically if Hodgson had requested a trade and he refused to answer that. Was there any basis for that? Who knows but it could have been a factor. Basically I see it as the Canucks trading for short term need with the additional benefit of longer term potential. They were deep at centre and with the other trades they made, they became even deeper. That may well have been a factor when the trade involving Hodgson was made so late in the process.

    I admit I was very surprised that it was Hodgson as opposed to Raymond who was traded. It wasn't that long ago when Hodgson was deemed untouchable. We always knew there would be someone going out when a trade was made. We didn't see this one coming. When you look at how few of the rumored deals actually took place, the fact that the Canucks were able to get the kind of deals they did make done gives them a vote of confidence as far as I am concerned. I haven't heard a single analyst rate the Canucks as being anything other than a winner today. They gave up one player who was averaging between 10 and 15 minutes of ice time a game as well as an occasional defensive fill in off of their active roster. They got bigger and deeper as a result for this year and looking forward. Hodgson was a substantial price to pay but I am convinced they are better and stronger now than they were yesterday.

    I am prepared to see how they make out with the new additions in the lineup before I start reaching for the Vaseline.
     
  4. m_peroni

    m_peroni Hall of Fame

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    I had the TSN feed on TV and the ridiculous bias on Kassian was a joke. You'll love the guy, don't get me wrong. He is a pest, a pain in the ass, and will only get stronger and meaner as he grows. My only concern is his actual offensive potential. He has a lot of time to develop that (sometimes these forwards blossom in their later 20s), but there will be moments on the ice when you would have wished you had Hodgson to put out there.

    Gragani has very good offensive skills. Even in Italy this guy is known among hockey followers. What the guy has to do in order to ever be in the NHL for a long time is to get smarter defensively and stronger.

    Sulzer was a great dump for him, though. Vancouver wins that part by a landslide.

    I never thought Hodgson would be anything more than a 2nd line center, and you guys disagreed with me there a while ago, but Hodgson as a center, which is much needed in Buffalo, who already proved himself at the NHL level over a guy who has potential but has not excelled as well as hoped? It's a steal.

    Nucks improved in the toughness department, but i think if (knock on wood) Kessler gets hurt then this trade will have hurt them.
     
  5. rikster

    rikster 2nd Team All-Star

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    Thank gosh I was being tardy in ordering my #9 jersey, what a surprise....

    But the talk about him requesting a trade won't go away...

    As for the deal, I know squat about the players coming Vancouver's way , I trust Gillis to make sound decisions so at this point for me its a wash...

    One of the biggest improvements Gillis has made is in the area of player development, and as was pointed out last night by one of the beat writers players leave Vancouver better than when they came so I have full confidence that Kassian and Gragani will improve as players, question is will it be in time to make a contribution this season....

    The good news going forward is Vancouver has gone from having no size on the wing to lots of size on the wing with Booth and Kassian and Jensen who is 18 and 6'2" and was a very late camp cut this season...3 very talented and young players ...

    Byron Bitz showed in his short stint on the twins line what a big forward with some skill can do so if Kassian has tape of those games he will be very excited....

    Going forward, this has to signal the end of Ballard after this season....with the Gragani pickup ( who played for coach AV in junior ) and the emergence of Connauton and Tanev and Sauve from the Chicago Wolves, there is no room for his contract ...

    Going forward, the Canucks still have their ace in the hole in Schneider who could be moved this off season...

    That deal will be very interesting...

    Take care...
     
  6. Sir Rodney

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    I was watching the Sportsnet feed and there was a bit more reservation on Kassian in the short run. There's no question that Hodgson will be a great pickup for Buffalo. No one that I've heard is downplaying Hodgson's talent and potential in Vancouver from what I've heard. His biggest problem is that he wasn't a fit in Vancouver. I fully expect that he could play top six minutes in Buffalo starting next year but he would never get that opportunity in Vancouver. They tried him at wing, they had him centering the third and even the fourth lines at times and he got out on the second unit power play. Unfortunately for him, he was never better than anyone who would normally have slotted into the top six. He was a stop gap measure at best. I am still surprised that they moved him but I can understand their reasoning.

    The one surprise move that the Canucks didn't make was to add an additional veteran defenseman. The comments related to Gragani all deal with his offensive capabilities. The comparables to the role that Erhoff played come to mind. When you look at the smothering effect that a guy like Hal Gill will have on the Kesler line, it makes you wonder if they shouldn't have made that type of trade as well. They obviously feel that Alberts and Rome are sufficient but I wonder.

    Take care.
     
  7. Clint27

    Clint27 MVP

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    I think it will work out well for both teams.
    Hodgson was NOT going to get the minuates a player of his ilk needed, and the Sabres were in need of a centre...the Canucks were in need of some grit, so I think it works for both teams.
    What does everyone think of Howson outing Rick Nash? I think its bush league, personally. He's the only player on the team that has any drawing power, and now Howson has told the fanbase that he doesn't want to be there. That can't be good for ticket sales.
    Can't blame Nash for wanting out. He signed a longer term deal which, to me, shows that he wanted to stay in Columbus. Obviously the Jackets havn't been able to do much in the win column and that has to be wearing on Nash. He's not that old, but given how long it takes to develop a winner, can't blame him for suggesting that they could accelerate the rebuild by using him as trade bait, and he gets to go to a team that may get him some playoff games sooner rather than later.
    I say Howson is gone at the end of the year. Nash probably will be gone to, but if I get rid of one, its the GM.
     
  8. Sir Rodney

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    Hi Clint,

    Columbus should probably change their name to Straight Jackets. Talk about a team in disarray with no where to look but even further down. Sad for their fan base. They will be going in to next season with cupboards that are virtually bare. The players they have under contract going forward aren't going to get them in to the playoffs any time soon and after this debacle, the likelihood of any key free agents signing on are pretty slim. We could well be watching the death of a franchise.

    What is your gut reaction to the situation in Toronto? The media reaction seems to be quite critical of Burke's lack of action to strengthen the Leafs at the Deadline. If the Leafs fall out of contention, will the fans be as critical of Burke or will they allow him to stay the course?
     
  9. m_peroni

    m_peroni Hall of Fame

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    I think Columbus has become the joke of the league. Scott Howson proved to be an incompetent GM. You can't spend $60M on a team to start the year and carry to the season the same problem you had last season; goaltending.

    Maybe he should have done some better research on Jeff Carter to see if he actually really wanted to play in Columbus? Holmgren must have laughed his butt off that Carter only lasted 50 games there.

    Worst of all, though? How on earth could they decide to bring in Craig Patrick to "advise" Howson on a trade regarding Rick Nash? This is the same guy who has an awful record when it comes to trading big pieces. I actually think he is THE reasons why Nash did not get traded yesterday. Patrick wanted so much from the Rangers when he had to trade Jagr, Slats made a fair offer of NHL ready players, he wanted more. Talks ended. He traded Jagr to the Caps for a bunch of scraps that barely played an NHL season.

    Patrick has it against Slats? It's probable.

    Then Howson lowers the bar of class by saying that Nash wanted to be traded. Classless. Wait until season's end. Why make everything so bitter from now until season's end. Is the guy trying to save face with the fans or something?

    What a joke. Absolutely ridiculous. But, i am not going to put the blame all on Howson. All on Patrick. They are just inept people. The main blame goes to the ownership for keeping Howson in the first place and bringing along a has been manager who made the worst deal for one of the best players ever in the NHL, Jagr. This ownership is making the same mistake as the one in Atlanta. They kept Waddell for so many years and only to do what? FAIL. Only to see what? FAIL.

    It is just inexcusable. Fans are fans. They boo, they cheer. If owners and management and coaches listened to fans then we'd ave a major problem. The media? The journalists can criticize Howson all they want behind their desks and typing in being Captain Hindsight.

    Enough. These people need to be challenged. You need someone to get in their face and say "Why are you still the GM?" I remember a radio show up in NY-metro area called Mike and the Mad Dog, i think. When they had Milbury on, after he fired Laviolette for idiotic reasons, the first question was: "Why are you still the GM? Why are you still here?"

    Milbury had no idea how to react. He was stunned. Now, that was borderline unprofessional, but it was an in your face, cold hearted truth questioning.

    It is one thing if a GM is kept in a big market team because the resources are there to rebound and build quickly. In a small market team, though? Resources are scarce. There is very little room for error in a small market team. When you are failing in a small market team for pretty much a whole decade, you should be fired. Waddell was not and Atlanta no longer has a team.

    It is amazingly destructive for a small market team to go through this. The Panthers went almost a decade with failing management and it lost a lot of attendance, money, reputation, respect, and organizational strength from top to bottom.

    What happens when you bring in a smart GM in Tallon? Two draft years with a plethora of draft picks, some which will be good NHL'ers, no doubt. You have players that did not work out as dumped. You now have a team in first place in the SE Division looking to make the playoffs when anything but making them was expected.

    Do you know that McIlrath and Thomas, the two Rangers prospects, actually tweeted thanking that they did not get traded to go to Columbus? How embarrassing is that? That is how low this franchise has gone by keeping a failure making the decisions.

    Absolutely terrible, a total joke.
     
  10. Shakes

    Shakes MVP

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    fans in toronto are loosing their marbles with the teams collapse at one of the most critical times in the schedule.

    Wilson is currently in the line of fire. Burke will be next. Me I say he has done at least one thing for the team......Brought in assests and drafted assests. The cupboard of young players has never been better. Unfortunately most fans in Toronto will call for his head if the Leafs do not make the playoff's this year.

    Me I think next year is the telling year.......
     
  11. Clint27

    Clint27 MVP

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    Hi Sir,

    The Leafs are making it VERY hard to continue to cheer for them...year after year. All teams have gone through slumps, Ottawa and Washington, and unfortunately the Leafs are going through theirs now!!

    The Leafs are a very young team, so I'm not going to slit my wrists over the losing streak, but the play of some of the older players is really concerning.

    Kessel seemed to be putting together a very good year in the fall. He was hustling and wasn't a defensive liability...now Kessel isn't hustling on the back check as much, and seems to be cheating and taking the easy route.

    Phaneuf is constantly getting beat and isn't a physical force at all. Sure its hard to play high end all season, but these are desperate times for the Leafs and as Captain, Phaneuf should be the one leading the charge and playing desperate hockey.

    Komisarek has officially become a pilon. He's out of position and making poor decisions. He needs to play with someone who is fast enough to bail him out..that may or may not be Gardiner, but having to always bail Komi out will affect the development of Gardiner's game, so they can't do that full time.

    Grabovski and his whole line are doing little lately. I think that everyone is gripping the stick too tightly right now and no one is playing their game. These guys are too good together to give up on, but they have to alter how they play as teams have altered how they play against them defensively.

    I think Wilson's shelf life is over. Sitting Komi or Franson isn't going to cut it. Have the guts to sit a guy like Phaneuf when he is constantly getting beat and that may send a message. As its been reported numerous times, the Leafs have not made the playoffs in Wilson's time here. He had a crappy team when he started, but most of the players are new now, and the assistants have been changed.....so, the only thing they have left is to change the coach. I'm not saying that Wilson is a bad coach, he's just not the guy for this group.

    I wouldn't sell the farm for a Rick Nash. If its viable then do so, but I don't think the Leafs are within two or three years of competing to give up what they'll have to give up to get him. Kessel will always be the first line winger, and I like Kulemin-even if he isn't scoring this year. Where is Nash going to play? And with whom? We can't get a centre for Kessel, who will play with Nash? I mean, someone who will be defensively responsible. Kulemin is best with Grabo.

    The Leafs did well when they were playing the kids...maybe its time to call up some of the kids and let them have a go at it. Reimer is shell shocked and does not look like the goalie he was last year. He doesn't seem to be able to track the puck at all, and I don't like that he doesn't seem to move when someone shoots on him until its in the net. Maybe that is the style that Allaire is teaching him, but its not working. Perhaps sending him down to the Marlies for a little while to get his confidence back would be the best thing. He didn't get horrible over night, his style was changed. Maybe Allaire needs to recognize this and try a different style with him.

    I think the Leafs will pull out of the funk. Last year it was at the beginning of the year, this year its at the end. I think its inevitable that at the end of the day the Leafs will have to make a coaching change.
     
  12. m_peroni

    m_peroni Hall of Fame

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    Give Burke time. Rangers fans wanted Sather's head on a platter and are now realizing how much he changed the franchise and turned it the way it is now. He made a lot of errors. A TON of errors. Yet, these errors are now overlooked with the current status of the team.

    I think Wilson should be fired as he is just not getting a consistent effort from the players. I think these players need a fresh mind behind the bench. Someone who is more upbeat and shows a lot of passion. I wish Pat Quinn was younger.

    Still, Burke has to start making the smart deals now. Get rid of one of the two goalies.

    If available in July, sign guys like Greg Campbell, David Jones, Tootoo,....get those hard nosed players.

    No key player to re-sign this off-season, so that's a plus. I would try to get Derek Roy from the Sabres since they got Hodgson.

    But, first thing's first........get a new bench boss.
     
  13. rikster

    rikster 2nd Team All-Star

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    Disagree...

    What recent signings like the Hemsky deal in Edmonton show is a) high end UFA's won't sign in markets like Columbus and Edmonton and b) you have to over pay to keep your core players....

    Nash benefited from playing in an undesirable market by signing for the dollars and terms he got for deciding to stay in Columbus....

    Now, just a few seasons later he decides that he wants to take his inflated contract to a competitive market under his terms and conditions...

    I see this as a major CBA issue at the next bargaining table, increasing the age of UFA because as it stands now second contracts are inflated around the league and are especially inflated in undesirable markets like the Oilers and Jackets which forces them to over pay at too young an age to keep their RFA's from becoming UFA's...

    Take care...
     
  14. rikster

    rikster 2nd Team All-Star

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    Surprised...

    Hi Shakes, very surprised to learn your still patient...

    This is a team that is over the cap which got under the cap by buying a Burke signing in the minors so the thought that it now has depth of young players is confusing...

    Young players are cheap players and the excuse often given for Toronto's ups and downs doesn't wash when you consider they are a cap team....

    How can a young team be a cap team and how can a cap team be so bad? We discussed Howson in this thread and how incompetent he has been, for my money the most incompetent General Manager has been Burkey...

    Take care...
     
  15. Clint27

    Clint27 MVP

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    Re: Disagree...

    I think if you get to the point that you're a UFA, you should get to dictate where you want to play and for how much.
    Nash would have been signed to a similar amount not matter where he played, especially at the time he signed the contract. General Managers should take note and realize that if things go sour, then you're stuck with an immoveable contract (in these salary cap times), and not sign guys for those contracts....would that be collusion or good business. The players should also see what situation they are in and decide whether they want to break the bank or make a more than comfortable wage and be on a winning team.
    I say go to non guarenteed contracts...if you don't perform up to the standards that got you the big money for more than one year, its erased. The team doesn't have an albatross contract, and the players have a little more motivation to play better....how many times have we seen a guy have a banner year in the last year of a contract just to not be able to preform after he has his safety net?
    I think Nash's reason for wanting out of Columbus are for more reasons than just them doing poorly, I think its the whole poor management going on right from the top....sad part is, he has his big money, he has his no trade, and he'll be a victim of those perks.
     

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