Gillis Press Conference

Discussion in 'Hockey Talk' started by Sir Rodney, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Gang,

    You knew you weren't going to get any scoops out of this event but a bit of an insight into the Hodgson Trade. Gillis talked about private meetings to discuss player issues and his comment about having had more player issues with Hodgson over the past three years than all of the other players on the team combined was pretty revealing. That came after the comment about how there was a lot of speculation about Cody requesting a trade and it was as close as he's ever come to confirming that Hodgson (his father wasn't mentioned specifically) had wanted out. Gillis then went on to say there were six players in the NHL that he would have been willing to accept in trade for Hodgson and that Kassian was one of the six. He later ranked Kassian as one of the top young prospects they had in the system saying that players of that size and skill set simply weren't available as either trade targets or as free agents. He commented that Kassian could still have been playing junior this year so he wasn't the least bit disappointed in his lack of short term impact. Maybe now we can put the whole damn trade to rest. Hodgson wanted out. We got a top prospect in return.

    He made a comment that wouldn't shed any light on the goalie future. He sounded like he wasn't adverse to keeping both. I doubt that is what will happen but he heaped nothing but praise on both and especially how well they supported one another.

    As for Vigneault, the first issue that has to be addressed is Gillis' own situation with the team. He is meeting with ownership in the next few days and if he gets a contract extension, then he will make a decision on all other aspects of the team. The speculation is that if Gillis gets an extension, Vigneault will likely get one as well.

    No earth shattering revelations as I said with the one Hodgson comment being the exception.

    T'will be an interesting off season.

    Hawks looked bloody awful in the third period and deserved to lose. Wouldn't it have been nice to have been our Nucks kicking their butts like that?

    Come on Washington. Do the same to the Bruins.

    Take care.
     
  2. rikster

    rikster
    Expand Collapse
    2nd Team All-Star

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    Luongo...

    Hi Sir Rodney

    Much of the news today confirms the inside scoop we were given at the trade deadline...

    Given that, it shouldn't be a surprise that Luongo has publicly offered to waive his no trade clause...

    In hindsight, the Nucks might have been better off to bring some youth and excitement to their team which I think they will do next season which means the decision to keep AV may come down to their thoughts about his ability to coach a team with some young players on it...

    Given the way he handled many of the younger players, I think AV prefers a veteran team and maybe a Craig McTavish would be a better fit next year...

    Take care...
     
  3. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo...

    Hi Rikster,

    I know Mick pretty much discounted much of that report. "Interesting stuff, but i don't believe a word of it." Well, oh ye of little faith Mick, sometimes there is some truth to the far out rumors.

    Today we had confirmation of the problem with Cody Hodgson as well as the Luongo part of the report. Gillis was quite specific in how many players they would have considered to be part of a trade for Cody. He claims Kassian was one of only seven which is probably a subgroup of that list of 100 - 150 they were considering for possible player moves in general.

    I found it interesting that Gillis gave Raymond some support specifically. He had an opportunity to take the position that Raymond's role was one that was due for an upgrade but he stayed with the recovery time for the injury as being the primary problem with his play. Despite that vote of confidence, Raymond has to be one of the most logical players to be moved. With his being a RFA, I expect that his rights will be traded prior to July 1st. He could well be packaged with Luongo, especially if it is to Toronto.

    Pahlsson was an improvement over the injured Malhotra but no as good as the healthy version. It's hard to picture a contract extension there.

    The other Canuck named specifically in that report was Ballard. The pairing of Ballard with Tanev was satisfactory in the 5-6 role but his dollars would be better spent on a true power play quarterback if a stud 1-2 guy isn't obtainable.

    We have a much clearer picture of some of the moves the Canucks are likely to make but so much of the timing hinges on what happens to Luongo and when it occurs. I am going to go out on a small limb and suggest that it will happen at the Draft. I have no idea who they would be targeting in the Draft but Gillis was quite specific about the difficulty in getting the kind of player they need through a trade. If, the Tampa rumor proves to be true, Gillis could wind up juggling draft picks which would allow him to move up high enough to get what they need. Burke's creative moves to get both Sedins is the kind of thing I'm predicting will happen this year. I highly doubt we will be drafting 30th.
     
  4. rikster

    rikster
    Expand Collapse
    2nd Team All-Star

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo...

    Hi Sir Rodney...

    My guess based on the insider rumour we read is that there is already a tentative deal in place with one or two teams and it is up to either Luongo or Gillis to choose the deal...

    I haven't been a fan of Raymond since before the injury, so would be a bit disappointed if they re sign him, especially at the numbers they have to give to qualify him...

    Take care...
     
  5. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo...

    Hi Rikster,

    That's quite the guess. Was there more to that report to suggest that tentative deals could be in place? I totally buy in to the idea that GMs play what if all the time but I would hazard a guess that Luongo being the one available for trade didn't become a reality until much more recently. I place that more after game 2 of the LA Series. Up until that time, Luongo was still the number one goalie. Even though the two loses weren't Luongo's fault by any stretch of the imagination, it became clear that they needed to do something to shake the team up. The team officially became Schneider's at that point. Even with the game 3 loss, they didn't go back to Luongo for games 4 or 5 and the proverbial hand writing was on the wall.

    Even though there is no opportunity for trades until after the playoffs, I would suggest that unofficial negotiating is now going on, particularly with teams who were never in the post season or have been eliminated. It would be pretty naive to assume that the GMs aren't taking phone calls. Until Gillis gets his extension though, those talks won't get serious. He has to have the authority to make tentative deals and everyone expects he will have that within a week to ten days.

    Luongo has already given the okay to waive his no movement deal. I could see him providing a short list of teams but not having the final say. If it's anyone other than Tampa or Toronto, that will blow me away.

    From this point on I expect to hear a lot of reasons why the Leafs don't want or need Luongo coming out of their fan base.
     
  6. m_peroni

    m_peroni
    Expand Collapse
    Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would have traded Hodgson in the off-season. "Okay, you want to be dealt? I will do so. But, we need you this year in the playoffs and we expect you to play well to increase your likelihood of getting traded, but also for the team".

    Hogdson and Luongo to Columbus for Nash and Brassard.

    Now that's a deal!
     
  7. rikster

    rikster
    Expand Collapse
    2nd Team All-Star

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    In hindsight, it might have been fortunate that they dealt him when they did...

    If they built up his trade value as Gillis sez they did, a series against the likes of the LA Kings and the way they played would have surely reduced his trade value...

    He is too slow and too small to be effective against 3 of the 4 Western Conference semi finalists...

    I think he would have found himself playing only on the second unit power play with little 5 on 5 time...

    Take care...
     
  8. m_peroni

    m_peroni
    Expand Collapse
    Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not sure if it would have decreased his value. I actually think he would have helped the Canucks in that series. Who knows if they would have won or not? We won't and we can't know. But, i think that move did not help the team at all at the time that it was made and for the post-season. That we know.
     
  9. rikster

    rikster
    Expand Collapse
    2nd Team All-Star

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    Luongo/Vezna/Toronto/Carlyle...

    Hi Sir Rodney, I think how quickly Luongo has gone from willing to move for the sake of the team to providing a list confirms the framework of a move was built earlier in the season and likely during the time of the trade deadline...

    When considering Luongo's stats while in Vancouver, consider that for most of those years he played in an offensive system and the year the Nucks played a dumb it down system Willie Mitchell said it was the best display of goaltending he has seen....You will recall his statement during this years series against LA ...

    What do the 3 finalists for the Vezna have in common this year?, they all play in a dumb it down system....

    Which makes me think Luongo will look at the system as much and maybe more than the city and his priority will be to go to a more defensive system, especially as he moves into the back half of his career...

    Which makes me wonder if the Nucks and the Leafs did talk during the trade deadline was the decision to fire Wilson and move to a more defensive minded coach like Carlyle an attempt to make Toronto a desirable destination for Luongo?...

    Take care...
     
  10. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo/Vezna/Toronto/Carlyle...

    Interesting theory. I still feel geography will trump that and Luongo will wind up in Florida. The Gina factor will come in to play and Florida is where the bed is.
     
  11. m_peroni

    m_peroni
    Expand Collapse
    Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo/Vezna/Toronto/Carlyle...

    It is an interesting theory, but i am ready do challenge it with this:

    Luongo's best years were, and still are, with the Panthers. He carried the team single handedly, which he was not consistently able to do with the Canucks. If Luongo was with this current Panthers team, i think the Panthers would have already eliminated the Devils.

    Luongo did excellent in Vancouver. Numbers do not dispute that. But is he better playing in a "dumb it down" system? No. He did not have that with the Panthers and he made 50 saves a few times. I think it's a matter of pressure and he can't deliver when being under a microscope.

    If this guy had it tough in Vancouver with the media, fans, and ridiculous expectations, then i am not sure how he would handle Toronto. Toronto is a city where fans are abusive towards the players. I know that for a fact since talking to a former Leaf who told me people threw eggs at his house.

    I think the ideal spot for Luongo is Columbus. A team that is not under the microscope. They may get things right in the next few years, especially with a Nash trade.

    TB would also be a perfect fit for him and his family.

    This is a matter of Luongo wanting the best place for his own peace of mind and his family. Toronto would eat him alive.
    This post was edited on 4/26 8:09 AM by m_peroni
     
  12. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo/Vezna/Toronto/Carlyle...

    Assuming Columbus is on Luongo's list, what would you see as necessary to get a deal done involving Nash?
     
  13. m_peroni

    m_peroni
    Expand Collapse
    Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo/Vezna/Toronto/Carlyle...

    Well, Nash for Luongo is almost a fair hockey trade. The only reason why i would give more of an edge to Vancouver is due to age differences. But, Nash is an awesome scoring LW'er with great speed and size. Streaky, but could use great talent around him as well, which he never had in Columbus.

    Maybe Booth gets traded again (i'd feel bad for him), and that means that the deal would need to be done before July because that is when Booth's NTC kicks in. I think Mason could be a fine back up for Vancouver and there is still potential there for him to turn it around.

    Nash, Mason

    for

    Booth, Luongo, + (prospects)

    Vancouver gets a killer sniper. A solid back-up, and lets Schneider be the go to guy, plus ridding that Luongo contract. Columbus gets an A-grade goalie who thrived for a small market team in Florida when facing 50+ shots in many games. They get a scoring winger who can net 30 goals is healthy.

    I mean, i would make this deal if i were Columbus. Yet, you have nimrod Craig Patrick who is so heavy on prospects and obvious untouchables. At least, that's what he did with the Rangers. "We want Kreider, either McDonagh or Del Zotto, and plus". Umm....are you insane? Yet, this is the same guy that wanted Johnsson, Dvorak (after 40 goals), and Brendl (highly touted prospect at the time) for Jagr. Sather said no. Patrick said F-U, so he took Washington's deal, which resulted in players that barely played in the NHL.

    I don't see why Luongo should not put Columbus on his list. The guy is kidding himself if he just wants Cup possibilities.

    I mean, what...Chicago? Why would Vancouver want to give Chicago Luongo? I wouldn't. And other teams that are Cup possibilities....they already have their goalies.

    Tampa Bay is obviously a destination, but they have an average cast of quality, tradable players and i am not sure if they are willing to take on Luongo's contract after the Stamkos extension.

    The Panthers? I'd tell you. If Markstrom was not coming up the ranks, or if they just did not have a solid goalie prospect, i would list them as a destination. But Theodore and Markstrom next season seems set. Plus, Tallon may want to spend money on forward depth.

    What else is there for Luongo? Colorado? Maybe. Seems like they paid a steep price for Varlamov though.

    Toronto? I'll say it differently but with the same point as before. It's like suicide. Luongo would be asking for suicide if he goes to Toronto and accepts it.

    Columbus looks like a good fit, i think.
     
  14. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo/Vezna/Toronto/Carlyle...

    Good morning Mick,

    My daughter might be sending you hate mail for the Booth inclusion but I like the package both ways. I've been a bit concerned about going with a Schneider/Lack tandem and I would far prefer a veteran to play close to the same number of games Schneider played this year. Is Lack ready? If not this coming year, there's a problem. No question he is part of their longer term planning but right away? Booth has been a disappointment in terms of his net presence. He was brought in to be a power forward and he has played more light a bit bigger version of Raymond. If it's a carry over from his injuries, then the Summer for conditioning and coaching could help him become that player we need so badly. I'm sure they don't want to give up on him too quickly and the deal could be done with Raymond instead of Booth, they'd do it in a heart beat. I know Gillis doesn't tip his hand on much if anything so I take his supportive comments on Raymond with a grain of salt. He's a RFA and to qualify him with at least a 10% raise puts him at $2.8 million which is more than he's worth based on what he's been able to do post injury. I still believe his rights will be dealt at the Draft and that he'll be the one packaged with Luongo.

    Thanks as well for the info on Booth's NTC. If there was any thought of moving him, this year's Draft takes on even more significance.

    My initial reaction to Luongo going to Chicago was the same as yours. The more I thought of it though, the less concerned I became. If nothing else, when they played the Hawks, they'd have a pretty good insight into what Luongo's tendencies would be. The goalies they've had the most difficulty with are the ones with a solid core of defensive players filling all paths to the net. The Hawk defense seems to be on the decline so Luongo wouldn't make them that much more unbeatable. Add in the team hatred factor and those games would be classics.

    I was very disappointed in the Panthers loss last night. I was also annoyed with the Florida fans. The team was on the ice for the hand shake and the stands were emptying faster than a bomb threat. Where was the final thanks to the team and the return salute when there was more concern about beating traffic?
     
  15. m_peroni

    m_peroni
    Expand Collapse
    Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Luongo/Vezna/Toronto/Carlyle...

    That's it about Booth. He will not longer be that strong net presence. I watched this guy go full speed ahead towards the net and these were the scenarios:

    1) He is so strong that a d-man either has to let him go or take a penalty
    2) He actually scores
    3) He creates a scoring chance

    That was the Booth we knew before the injuries. After the injuries he still shows great speed and strength, but does not have the confidence to challenge with physicality. It's understandable. I remember Dvorak. Ever since that nasty knee injury the guy never drove to the net like he used to.

    Columbus will want good players and while Raymond is good, he is not that good. Columbus would be getting that quality goaltender, but they need someone better as a forward to replace Nash. Raymond is not it.

    For Schneider and a back-up? Clemmensen is a heck of a back-up to have, but in the deal Steve Mason would provide a good back-up role as well.

    Yes, the Nucks would know Luongo's weaknesses but worse is Luongo knowing the shooters on the Nucks. I always give the goalie the advantage in that regard.

    As for Florida, very disheartening loss. I think the shock, the upset, anger, and the fact that it was like...1 am during the work week led fans to just get out there. It's kinda chaotic to get on the Turnpike and other exits from the stadium. I mean, we were outta there the moment i saw the puck cross the line.

    If the game finished in the first OT or in regulation, you would have seen more fans stay and applaud. But it was late and i find that understandable. Still, throughout the game they were friggin loud, especially after that first goal that made it 2-1. This is what happens when you put together a playoffs team. Fans come out. It's that after a decade of no playoffs and pathetic management, it's obvious that the fans don't show up.

    I was very pleased with the fans in attendance, though. I am sure the Panthers got a very helpful playoffs revenue from this series. That helps big time.
     
  16. rikster

    rikster
    Expand Collapse
    2nd Team All-Star

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    Should the Canucks deal Schneider?

    The Canucks have 2 high end goalies in Luongo and Schneider and 2 more high end prospects in Lack and Cannata in the system...

    I don't think the Canucks can make a bad decision with whichever goalie they retain...

    Something that doesn't get mentioned or recognized enough is the relationship between Luongo and Schneider and what a good mentor Luongo has been, I mean how many starters would be so willing to allow his understudy to flourish with his help?... ( maybe I've been watching too many Smash episodes on tv )..

    The more I think about the situation the more I'm thinking the Canucks should keep Luongo and deal Schneider, assuming the offers are similar and for sure if the Canucks can get more in return for Schneider as they can for Luongo...

    As far as Luongo and his warts, a good article examines some of the common myths about his game...

    Pretty solid numbers
     
  17. Die-hard

    Die-hard
    Expand Collapse
    MVP

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    2,821
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Should the Canucks deal Schneider?

    I'm indifferent Rikster, don't really mind who they trade. Leaf fans will tell you that Lu isn't worth a damn thing anyway so why would you trade him?

    Schneider probably gets more back in return and I'm fine with trading him as well. I don't really think the Nucks can go wrong with either guy so if somebody offers the moon for Schneids and an average return for Lu I trade Schneids all day long.
     
  18. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Should the Canucks deal Schneider?

    They do have two quality goal tenders. On that we all agree. Unfortunately, that view isn't shared by the Twitter Twits who are inclined to voice their displeasure every time Luongo has anything less than a perfect game. That same group of "fans" seem quite willing to cut Schneider a lot more slack, for now. Where this gets dicey is if Luongo is no longer part of the equation and Schneider comes crashing down off his perch, which is bound to happen. Then we get in to the same old, same old with number three or four in the depth chart to come in to save the day.

    Ideally, I would like to see them keep both. Realistically, that isn't likely to happen. I found it particularly interesting how the love towards Luongo started to flow as soon as it looked like he was on his way out. What that change of sentiment has allowed Gillis to do is take his time on making a decision. Gillis is in the driver's seat on this one. I firmly believe this is a situation where not trading either of the goalies is the least risky situation of the three options. The lack of rumors coming out of Vancouver is unusual even with the playoffs getting the bulk of the news. Either the lid is firmly clamped down in terms of leaks or Gillis is keeping his cards close to his chest and all options open.
     
  19. m_peroni

    m_peroni
    Expand Collapse
    Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Should the Canucks deal Schneider?

    I think it will be a matter of contracts. Nucks have a solid team and a young solid goalie, it's more affordable to keep that rather than Luongo. Plus, it seems like Luongo would really not mind being traded either.
     
  20. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Should the Canucks deal Schneider?

    Hi Mick,

    In terms of contracts, I don't see there being much difference. At most we are talking about a Cap hit of around $2 million. Schneider would likely get anywhere from $3.5 to $4 to sign on as the number one goalie. Luongo's Cap hit was just over $5.3. If they bring in a veteran to back Schneider up, that could actually place the cost higher. To keep both would definitely would be the most expensive option and that's why it's not likely to happen. Schneider would still get over $3 even in a back up role. The cheapest route would be to sign Schneider to the kind of numbers I mentioned and then promote Lack as the backup. It's the cheapest but the riskiest by far.

    Let's assume that the Canucks are able to add either a top four defenseman or a top six forward, either as part of the goalie deal or through free agency. Simply replacing Luongo with Schneider doesn't come close to paying for that. Salary has to be moved out. I don't know why Gillis keeps saying warm fuzzies about Raymond for instance. They simply can't bring him back at $2.8 and have him struggle to find a roster spot. Ballard's salary is more of a determining factor on his leaving than his play. Those are the kind of decisions that will free up Cap space. Maybe a package involving Edler to try bring Weber to the Canucks? Salary out to make room for the bigger salary coming in. Whatever happens, this could well be the most interesting Summer for the Canucks in a long time.
     
  21. m_peroni

    m_peroni
    Expand Collapse
    Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Should the Canucks deal Schneider?

    Schneider won't get more than a $3.5M per season deal and it will most likely be a three year deal too.

    Length-wise, it is better to give away Luongo's contract as contract length limits may be implemented in the next CBA as well.
     
  22. Sir Rodney

    Sir Rodney
    Expand Collapse
    NHL

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Should the Canucks deal Schneider?

    Contract length will be more of a factor as you indicated. In all honesty though, I don't see Luongo playing more than five more years. He will be getting the bulk of his cash in the early years and I fully expect him to retire rather than hang on when his playing ability deteriorates. I never foresaw him playing through the length of the contract.
     
  23. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear
    Expand Collapse
    1st Team All-Star

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,204
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dumb It Down?

    The flip side of that is this....those goalies are under SO MUCH MORE pressure than Luongo ever faced.

    Those goalies know that they have to be all but perfect every night. Luongo never had to worry about that in Vancouver. He knew he would get plenty of goals every season.

    Quick, Smith and Brodeur never had that luxury. If they didnt donminate, they didnt win.

    Call it dumb it down all you want. But those guys come through in the clutch, because they are used to playing clutch hockey all the time.

    I'll take any of those goalies any day of the week.

    Later
     
  24. rikster

    rikster
    Expand Collapse
    2nd Team All-Star

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Dumb It Down?

    The quality of saves in these playoffs is a reflection of the style of play in these playoffs...

    Put 5 skaters in front of the net and have a few of the opposition players standing in front of the net and see if you can ping pong a shot on net...

    What made the last 2 games of the Eastern finals more exciting than the rest is that the Rangers were a tired team and mistakes began to happen which is what allowed for some open ice...

    There hasn't been any memory making goaltending this playoffs because the goalies haven't had to stand on their heads...

    This playoffs will be remembered by how many blocked shots there were throughout the playoffs...

    Take care...
     

Share This Page