Lets Talk About Actual Hockey

Discussion in 'Hockey Talk' started by maineblackbear, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear 1st Team All-Star

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    What does Vancouver have to do to turn this around?

    Is their any chance that Schneider gets the game 5 start? Luongo looks like a deer caught in the headlights, and if the reports that 50,000 of his best friends were cheering when he was pulled...he has to be lacking in some confidence. Its human nature.

    IMHO, the Nucks have to do the same thing to the Bruins as was done to them in Boston...hit, hit, hit, and hit somemore.

    Both teams have obvious injuries...Horton, Lucic, Bergeron and Chara for Boston. Kesler, Samuelsson, Hamhuis...and obviously Malholtra is not full strength.

    But Boston has continually pounded on Kesler and Burrows from the beginning of game 2.

    Vancouver must do the same to Bergeron and Krejci. Pound the skill guys. Its obviously taken its toll on Kesler and the Sedins. The twins look like they have lost the will to play. The Nucks have to make the B's skilled players feel the same way.

    And forget trying to get into Thomas head. Wont happen. The guy has been told that he isnt good enough since he got out of the University of Vermont, and he likes to play a physical game.

    I think its going to take a guy like Torres to set the tone of game 5. He needs to make a statement.

    If Boston wins game 5, this could end in 6. If the Nucks win game 5, we will have an exciting finish to the series.

    Later
     
  2. Die-hard1

    Die-hard1 6th Round Pick

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    They don't need to do anything - it's a 2-2 series, all tied up, Boston is not leading even though everybody seems to think they are.

    I don't think Schneider gets the start, but you never know, I wouldn't have said he would get the start in Chicago either. Lu doesn't lack confidence, he just plays a stinker every once in a while - he'll bounce back.

    The Nucks need to play their game and stop trying to beat the Bruins at being goons - they can't win that way. They need to stop worrying about the slashes, whacks and whatever else - let Boston do that, take penalties and make them pay. I'm confident they'll get back to that in game 5.

    IMHO - whoever wins game 5 wins the series. Vancouver is just as capable as Boston is at winning on the road, if not more capable. Again, it's a 2-2 series - you don't need to turn around a tied series, you just need to win 2 of the next 3.
     
  3. m_peroni

    m_peroni Hall of Fame

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    It's Vancouver. They struggled with the Hawks having a 3-0 series lead. They struggled a bit with Nashville having a 2-0 lead, i think.

    This Nucks team has mental issues. However, i think they underestimated Boston's physical strength, aggressiveness...and with Burrows finger biting, the hit on Horton... it woke them up to play a lot harder on Vancouver.

    I think Luongo is still stuck with the 8 goals he allowed the other game. Shame on AV for leaving a star goalie hung out to dry in that game. By goal four he should have taken Luongo out. There was no need to embarrass him for four more goals. It was ridiculous.

    Canucks will be more relaxed at home, for sure. But i am shocked that this team loses on mental strength, and it's their biggest weakness. I think this series should have been won 4-0 by now. Vancouver is simply the better team. But they keep tricking me with their loss of focus. They go from playing a determined game, to a cluttered game.

    I refuse to believe that this team will lose on home ice. Therefore, Nucks win game 5 and it should....SHOULD...give them the continuity to play a solid road game six with the Cup in their hands.
     
  4. Connecticut

    Connecticut 1st Round Pick

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    Zero chance Schneider starts Game 5.

    I posted my thoughts in the other thread, but there's no reason for the Canucks to panic. Canucks players have often said this year that when they play their game the way they're supposed to they're a very tough team to beat -- it's time to prove that that's true.
     
  5. Sir Rodney

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    What concerns me is even though it's a 2-2 series, the Canucks are fortunate to have won both close games in Vancouver. Boston was clearly the better team based on their style of play in games 3 and 4. If either team was in a position to win this four straight, it wasn't the Canucks.

    We've wasted a lot of time and energy debating each other's perceptions about why things evolved the way they did and I appreciate the tone of this thread.

    I plead guilty to the same underestimation of the Bruins as the Canucks themselves. I obviously saw far more of the Canucks than I did the Bruins. What I had seen didn't prepare me for the speed and tenacity shown by the Bruins. Coming in, I saw a greater degree of inconsistency than what they've shown. I honestly didn't expect that. I did expect the Canucks to weather the Bruins' style of play and then to make them pay with their power play. I also didn't expect them to gravitate to the Bruins' game plan. That's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. It doesn't work.

    Here's what I'm hoping will happen tomorrow. The fans have too much invested on this team to bail on them in such a critical point in the series. Disappointment is one thing but abandonment is something else altogether. The Boston fans gave their team a tremendous boost and I expect that to be the case tomorrow. A key factor will be how the referees react to the crowd's involvement. If they call the game the way they normally do in the season, that should give the Canucks an edge. It also follows that the Canucks need to capitalize on those opportunities with some power play goals. If they don't, the advantage would guickly switch to the Bruins. The Canucks have to bring the same style of game that got them to the President's Trophy. They didn't get there by being an intimidating team. The old adage of speed kills applied. There's nothing in that phrase of also carrying a big stick so why they would try to incorporate that aspect to the extent they have in Boston is beyond comprehension.

    In terms of goal tending, Luongo has to play but it would have to be with a short leash. If he doesn't start and at the very least have a good game, he is toast in Vancouver. His reputation of not being able to deliver in the playoffs will stick to him like glue. Our reputation of being a goalie graveyard will resurface. I expect him to show up strong.

    As for the Canucks' defense, two players could be playing themselves off the roster. Ballard has been AV's whipping boy for some time now and he did nothing other than that one blocked shot that saved a goal to change that level of confidence. The other is Erhoff. It used to be seen as a high priority to get him re-signed after the playoffs. If he wants a significant raise, he will have to show more that he's worth it.

    I expect there will be some juggling on the forward lines but not much. There is little to be gained from small "g" goon hockey for the top six. When you start playing Oreskovich with the twins, you have given up any chance at offense. The Canucks have to play to their strength. They looked rattled and showed no confidence in their passing. Let the refs control the game and make the Bruins pay, not the other way around. If that happens, they win. If not, the series ends in six.

    This is a must win for the Canucks. A best of three with home ice advantage only works in their favor if they get the last two games out of your mind and do what they do best. Will it be enough? I think I'll watch the game and find out.

    Take care.
     
  6. rikster

    rikster 2nd Team All-Star

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    I agree...

    I commented earlier in the series that Thomas worried me and the Bruins were a break or two away from being a real threatbto take the series...

    I think the breaks have swung Boston's way, and the sum of their parts is greater than many of us have given them credit for...

    But what worries me now is that the way the series is being officiated favors the Bruins in a big way...

    Somehow the Canucks have to find a way to have the games called the way they are for 82 regular season games...

    We saw this in the Chicago series, when Bolland returned to their line up the Hawks began to goon it up and they beat the Nucks by similar scores to what Boston just did...

    This series the Canucks are either missing their best blue liner and they have some key players, ie Kesler playing hurt...

    My fingers are crossed that they find a way...

    Take care...
     
  7. m_peroni

    m_peroni Hall of Fame

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    Again with the officials...
     
  8. Shakes

    Shakes MVP

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    I have cheered for this series to be a long one from the get go. I felt like Boston did not get any credit that they deserved from the get go. I also felt like the Vancouver fans and the media in Canada were already penciling in Vancouver as the champs before the series started. I did not see how Boston could win the series but I have seen teams like Boston that I both played on and coach win championships over far superior opponents mostly as a result of being able to play the grinding game......

    I have said it before and I will say it again. Boston is a lunch bucket team with a great defence and a great goaltender. They have a little bit more fire power then Nashville did and they play a good solid defensive game. Teams like that can achieve more then they should be able to achieve......


    At the start of this series it was David (Boston) vs. Golliath (Vancouver) and right now it is darn well interesting as hell to see what happens as the RESPECT for both teams has been earned. It isn't no cake walk for any team and if I was a Vancouver fan I would be scared as hell to what Im watching......
     
  9. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear 1st Team All-Star

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    Agree With Virtually Everything

    I dont for the life of me understand why the Canucks tried to play Bostons game. To me, they were not just reacting to the style the B's play...but at times willingly initiating it!

    Boston has been successful because they are doing what they do best....physically punish you by finishing every check...with ferocity. And as you said, they are as tenacious a bunch as I have seen from a Bruin team. This is a bunch of young guys who care about each other. The Horton injury did not hurt their confidence...at angered them. These guys are tight on and off the ice. Lucic and Horton are best friends, and Lucic said that he speaks for the team when he said that the hit "p***ed them off." They took it personally. I think they all know on some level that Rome absolutely did NOT intend to hurt Nathan...but the hit and injury has fueled their anger and aggression.

    Vancouver needs to come out and play their skill game and get back to their heavy 2 man forecheck. Luongo will be a huge factor. He absolutely CANNOT afford to give up an early goal...the boo-birds will voice their displeasure in full force. I agree with you 100% that the leash on Roberto MUST be short. People around the hockey world seem to believe that if he has a rough game or 2 in game 5, and 6....that Canuck management will trade him.

    Boston needs to continue the EXACT game they have played for 2 games.

    This game tonight should be absolutely full of energy and desperation...it needs to be for both teams.

    I don't want to sound arrogant, because I wont be calm until if and/or when the Cup is hoisted....but I have to believe that if Boston wins game 5 tonight....it will end in 6. If Vancouver wins tonight it goes 7....and I give the edge to Vancouver.

    Take care, and I honestly apologize for my tone earlier in the series.

    Later
     
  10. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear 1st Team All-Star

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    Again, lets keep this civil. We have gone back and forth for a week about the stick swing etc....it is a TWO WAY street.

    What do you think Vancouver needs to do to win?
    What do you think Boston needs to do to win?

    Later
     
  11. Original Beast

    Original Beast 2nd Team All-Star

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    Re: Agree With Virtually Everything

    agree , this game decides it. alot will depend on which Luongo shows up.
    unless we got to game 7, this might well be the best game of the playoffs tonite.

    let's hope the refs do a clean job, and let the game be decided by the players. i assume if Van loses tonite, Schneider goes in Boston, as a final hope. (let's hope we don't need that).

    had a dream last night, Van won 2-0. =0)
     
  12. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear 1st Team All-Star

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    Again, I Can't Disagree With You Either

    A 2-0 Vancouver win will not shock me 1 bit.

    I can also see the winner, not just Boston, winning the series in 6. I do think the home crowd factor is huge.

    The difference is that in Boston, Thomas is a God and can do no wrong. From where I sit, it appears that Vancouver doesn't share that same love affair with Luongo.

    I just hope its a good game.

    Later
     
  13. rikster

    rikster 2nd Team All-Star

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    I think too much is being made of David vs Goliath or the response to the Horton hit or Thomas, etc etc...

    The finals is a war of attrition, and we will find out at the end of the series which team had the better fortune...

    I think this is the Canucks biggest challenge ...

    The Canucks road to the finals has gone thru Chicago and then Nashville and then San Jose and given their current health, the Canucks would be hard pressed to beat any of these teams...

    Every one of those series took a physical toll...

    The Bruins on the other hand had a road that went thru Montreal and Philly and Tampa, a much easier path travelled and with all due respect none of those teams would likely have beaten any of the teams Vancouver played...

    I'm assuming Hank has a back issue and Kesler has a groin issue and Hamhuis isn't coming back and irony of ironies, Salo is their healthiest defenseman which leads me to believe the Canucks need a major break to go their way to have a chance...

    Win or lose, the Canucks will look back at these playoffs and bemoan their inability to close out the Hawks in 4 or 5 games and the extra needless toll it took on them physically...

    Take care...
     
  14. rikster

    rikster 2nd Team All-Star

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    Re: Again, I Can't Disagree With You Either

    I think win or lose the series, the seed was sown for moving Luongo in game 6 against Chicago...

    With the emergence of Schneider, who seems to handle the pressure of the big games better than Luongo, and with the age and quality of the team the cap savings could be used to make the team better for a longer time...

    A Cup win would make the return better, and with a cap hit of $5 per, I could see a move to a number of teams on the East Coast...

    Take care...
     
  15. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear 1st Team All-Star

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    Win Or Lose

    Shakes,

    As far as I am concerned, win or lose (and I CERTAINLY want the Bruins to win...) I believe that the Bruins have earned the respect of the hockey world!

    As you said, this may not be the highest skilled team in the NHL, but you would be hard-pressed to find a group with more collective character, grit, tenacity, drive and will-to-win, than this group of players.

    Win or lose, I am excited as all heck, and proud to call myself a Bruin fan!

    Later
     
  16. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear 1st Team All-Star

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    Thats very possible Rikster.

    But I would submit that eventually, the law of averages will catch up to the Bruins, and the loss of their 2nd leading playoff scorer will end up killing them.

    I wont argue that injuries have hurt Vancouver...they absolutely have. Hamhuis is a huge loss. Kesler is banged up as well. Samuelsson is a significant loss.

    Bruins are banged up as well....Bergeron is hurting. He is still throwing his weight around (BTW his ohysical game has been amped up this postseason), but he is hurting. Chara still looks weak.

    But admittedly, the Nucks appear to have a bit worse injury situation. But I guess its how you fight through it. Philly had many key guys out last year as well. But it sure does make for a tough road to travel.

    Later
     
  17. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear 1st Team All-Star

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    Philly?

    Even though the acquired the rights to Bryzgalov, you would think that they would make a run at Roberto.

    Washington as well!

    Later
     
  18. Sir Rodney

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    Hi Jeff,

    What has impressed me most about the Bruins was how they didn't miss a beat after losing Horton. A lot was made about how big an impact losing their leading playoff scorer was going to be. You even suggested the Canucks would win in six when that happened. If anything, that loss has provided a huge incentive for the rest of the forwards to step it up a notch. When you have a team based on depth rather than star power, the loss takes on less of an impact. Will it eventually catch up to them as you suggest it could - damn I hope so but I'm not counting on it. The only way the Canucks win is to utilize their speed on home ice. With the accumulated injuries on both teams, that isn't an easy task.
     
  19. Sir Rodney

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    Re: Again, I Can't Disagree With You Either

    The lack of love has been in the background with virtually every goalie we've had recently. Vancouver fans are extremely intense and with social media being what it is, everyone has an opinion and is more than willing to share it. He makes a great save and the crowd yells, "Looooooooouuuuuuuu!!". If he has the audacity to lose a game, the consonant and second vowel changes. I can understand the cap implications of the long term contract but dissatisfaction was automatically built in. I feel bad for Luongo as the expectations out west are squarely on his shoulders. To blame him exclusively for the last two losses is ridiculous but that happens in Vancouver. Being a moron isn't restricted to those who don't support your favorite team.

    If the Canucks win tonight, I would go with Schneider in Boston. The odds of winning Game 6 wouldn't be that good and it would keep Luongo geared up following a huge win in the biggest game of the year for the big show on home ice in Game 7.
     
  20. Original Beast

    Original Beast 2nd Team All-Star

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    Re: Again, I Can't Disagree With You Either

    hey Rikster,

    if Louie stinks it up the rest of this series, and we lose in 6. I, too, would demand he get traded. sounds cruel considering how much stronger he's help make this team since he's been here - but the standards are raised now with this group of talent. add that to Schneider scenario, which would give us a huge cap relief, it almost seems the most logical thing to do.

    but the question is this: who the heck would take on that ridiculous contract?? to me, this is arguably the riskiest maneuver that Gillis has made - bigger than the Sundin offer, and definitely bigger than the Grabner trade.

    anyhow, we're getting ahead ourselves aren't we?? =0)
    this thing ain't over yet.
     

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