Stanley Cup Finals Game 4

Discussion in 'Hockey Talk' started by Connecticut, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. Connecticut

    Connecticut
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    Oops. Not a lot of good things to say about that one.

    Boy is Boston a dirty team. Not going to whine about it though, you do whatever it takes to win. Good for them. Although if Rome got 4 for his hit, then Marchand needs to get at least 2 for submarining Sedin there at the end. No honor in that, dirty, dirty, gutless player. I was hoping he wouldn't turtle so Ballard could knock some sense into him.

    If I'm making excuses for the Canucks, which they don't deserve, I would say that the terrible ice was a huge advantage for the Bruins and their style -- the only game going was the chip and chase and the Canucks didn't adapt. That's what happens when you play hockey in June. The PP got destroyed by it, the play that stands out for me is Salo missing the easy pass back at the point from Sedin in the 3rd (?) where the puck just skips off the ice and over the blue line. They also can't get a bounce to go their way to save their lives -- but you know what they say, regression to the mean. It's too bad Ballard hadn't seen any ice before tonight, it was really obvious. He did get slew footed by Marchand on the third goal, but he didn't look pretty recovering or for most of the rest of the night.

    I certainly would have liked to get a split in Boston, and certainly wouldn't have wanted to get outscored 12-1, but it's not the first time it's happened (vs. Chicago it was 12-2, but it was close). We responded then and I'm expecting us to respond again on Friday. It's a good thing we banked 2 wins early, now we've got an exciting series. Everyone will say Boston has the momentum, and it's hard to argue they don't, but that can change in about a shift and a half. I wouldn't be surprised to see Game 7 in Vancouver with both teams holding serve at home -- that would be pretty exciting.
     
  2. Original Beast

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    funny thing CC, is that Vancouver played a really good 1st period just like in game 3.
    This one, i hate to say it, i lay at the feet of Luongo. he was dreadful. 1st goal between the legs was bad, and the 2nd one, from 45 ft even worse given the timing, and how his teammates were battling hard at the other end. we were outshooting them by a wide margin at that point, and outside of the breakaway goal, most of the bruin shots were also way out around the 40-50 foot zone from the net. i was hoping he'd get pulled at that point, just like the 3rd goal in game 3, cuz once a couple of bad goals go in on him, the floodgates open. it did again tonite. i told my wife yesterday that we'd either win a close one, or we lose another blowout. alas, the latter occurred. it really is friggin Chicago all over again.

    some other bad choices include the choice to play Ballard, who was terribly rusty and shaken in his confidence, with Bieksa on the top pairing. they've never played together and it's too much of an adjustment for a guy like Ballard (at this stage anyways to) go from doghouse to the spotlight. all along i thought AV would go with the Tanev-Ballard addition on the 3rd pairing and play the big four (edler, Erhoff, salo and Bieksa) where they belong. that said, none of those guys had good games either, and it's really starting to show how much we miss Dan Hamhuis.

    I also thought we played into the Bruins hands two games in a row - trying to match the checking, chippiness, slashing and crap that they do . i mean, Marchand played a great game, but he's a dirty rat (kinda what other teams accuse us in Burrows). he slew foots, slashes, clotheslines - it's pretty ugly, but no body calls him on it. like every buys Julien's talk of how "classy" they are. puh-leeze.

    Let's hope home ice means something and gets the team to play Vancouver hockey. don't slow down our game, use the "better" ice, and move our feet. the Bruins were pumped, confident and skating as fast as i've ever seen them this playoffs. i suspect some of that had to do with Vancouver playing tense, and not moving their feet. that said, Bruins coaching staff made solid adjustments to their game, while Van's staff is doing the same ol' thing, but expecting different results. it's hard to believe what we Canucks fans have witnessed these past 2 games.

    i'm afraid game 5 decides the series. we lose it, i can't see how Boston, and Thomas in particular will let us beat them in their rink in that scenario. we win, i see this going to game 7. at least it's gonna be a real series now.
    This post was edited on 6/8 10:48 PM by Original Beast
     
  3. maineblackbear

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    Lets Call A Spade A Spade

    Yup...Marchand possibly deserves a suspension.

    HOWEVER, he had THREE Vancouver players coming after him. 3 on 1. And when McQuaid got there...strangely every Vancouver player backed down. But yeah, may be he deserves something.

    You didn't mention Burrows did you? It was clear as day, that in the 7 seconds before Thomas slashed him, that Burrows skated between Thomas and his net and slashed HIM...then curled around and slashed Thomas AGAIN...this time on the glove/stick.

    Is Boston playing cheap hockey at times? ABSOLUTELY!

    However, Vancouver is playing cheap hockey with the sam frequency.

    Goes BOTH ways...difficult to acknowledge it though.

    Later
     
  4. maineblackbear

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    Boston Is Out-Skilled, But No Out-Hearted!

    Vancouver certainly has the higher skill level of the 2 teams. But the clear difference is in the heart of the two teams.

    Postgame, Sedin was pretty much calling out Luongo. On the ice, you could see they lost all of their heart. They are being physically pounded all game long.

    Both teams are using their sticks as "weapons" and their is diving going on.

    But ultimately the last 2 games have come down to heart.

    Later
     
  5. Die-hard1

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    Re: Lets Call A Spade A Spade

    Jeff, no chance it's both ways in this - Boston is the instigator and Vancouver is doing exactly what they shouldn't be doing, which is retaliating.

    Full credit to the Bruins - they are playing the way they need to play to win this series, and that's to turn it into a streetfight. It makes for awful hockey, but it's a perfect gameplan for them. They know they can't skate with the Canucks and they've turned it into the type of hockey they need to play.

    On the Canucks side - they really need to smarten the hell up. I don't care if you are constantly getting whacked on the ankle, or slashed on the knee - you need to take one for the team - it's the Stanley Cup Finals for pete's sake! Quit with the retaliation as we know who will win a battle of who is a tougher team.

    Marchand doesn't deserve a suspension, there's no reason to give him one. He got 3 penalties on the play and that's good enough - the Canucks have to make the Bruins pay for playing like that.

    We'll see what happens in game 5 - if Vancouver continues to allow the Bruins to slow the game down to a crawl and get involved in every single post whistle scrum, Boston will win. If Vancouver decides to play their speed game and quit worrying about the rest of the crap, Vancouver will win. It's whoever can make the other team play to their strengths - and the last two games it's been Boston.
     
  6. Die-hard1

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    Re: Lets Call A Spade A Spade

    The way you defend Marchand is ridiculous. Three players coming after him? One was Ehrhoff, who he clotheslined into the corner, so that's two players. One was Daniel, who has never thrown a hit in his life, and who was the third? Do I have to get the video out for you again? Ballard came in after the second hit, not before, after.

    Burr did not slash Thomas, he knocked his stick - it's annoying as hell, but there was no slash there. Thomas decided to two hand him on the ankle and got called for it - Burr needs to suck it up and take one for the team there. Of course, being stuck in stupid mode as the Canucks are, he decided to go after Thomas - just as the Bruins want. This is not going both ways, this is the Bruins initiating and the Canucks retaliating. It's some of the dumbest play I've seen the Canucks make since Chicago a couple of years back - who cares who is tougher?

    I don't care if the Bruins are the dirtiest team of the last 20 years, the Canucks have to suck this stuff up. Their PP has been downright brutal and that's why they are losing these games - Luongo was terrible too, but the PP was the main reason.
     
  7. maineblackbear

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    Re: Lets Call A Spade A Spade

    Lets put the "clothesline" into perspective.

    He chipped the puck along the boards...could not get between Erhoff and the boards to chase the puck. He then goes around Erhoff, between he and the goal to chase the puck, and thats when he got Erhoff with the "clothesline." It was clear as day that he was trying to get his arm OVER Erhoffs head.

    He did nothing of a malicious intent up to that point. Did he deserve a penalty for the contact with the head? ABSOLUTELY!!!

    However, INTENT to "clothesline" was not there. Poor decision to put his arm at head level? YES.

    Where Marchand went wrong was in flipping Sedin.

    Suspend him for that? Sure.

    Then the NHL should have suspended the biter.

    Goes both ways. BOTH teams have escaped penalty for their actions.

    At least I call it both ways....I acknowledge the cheap play by the Bruins. But all you Vancouver fans can do is claim that the Canucks have done NOTHING wrong. Poor Vancouver. Being beaten up by the Big Bad Bruins.

    BTW...Ballard ARRIVED after the hit on Sedin. He STARTED his route towards Marchand BEFORE up upended Sedin.

    Play the game! If they don't like how they are being treated, I would suggest choosing one of the following options...

    1. Put your own sticks down
    2. Stop the diving and maybe the official will respect you
    3. STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES!!

    I like the Canucks. They have always been 1 of my favorite teams. But seriously, for all the accusations about the Bruins that I hear over here after every game, there is also a corresponding excuse for a Canuck who does the same thing.

    Later
     
  8. maineblackbear

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    Nice

    Good job giving no credit to the Bruins for playing the game.

    All I hear is excuses being made for the team who everyone said would blow the Bruins out of the water in 5 games max.

    All I hear is complaining that the Bruins are the dirtiest team in the history of hockey and that they are picking on the poor defenseless Vancouver Canucks.

    I NEVER hear anyone call out Hansen for slashing Krejci, which I believe led to the tying goal in game 2. Had that been called, the Bruins are likely up 3 games to 1. But I never heard anyone here complain about that slash, which incidentally was EXACTLY like the one Peverley gave to Bieska.

    All I hear is that cheapshot goalie Tim Thomas slashing poor defenseless Burrows...but nobody mentions him skating behind Thomas, slashing HIM, and then curling around and trying to knock the stick out of his glove.

    As Thomas said post game...Burrows and Kesler have been doing that all series, and he said he will only put up with it for so long...and that grace period ended last night.

    Vancouver doesn't like it? Then score on him.

    And if Boston is instigating the physical play...good.

    FWIW, if the NHL had done the RIGHT thing and suspended the original instigator...Alex Burrows for his bite...and then possibly have dealt with LaPierre and Hansen for taunting in game 2....then this would not have escalated to the point it did.

    I guarantee that had those 2 things been addressed, that none of this garbage would be happening. But they didn't deal with it and Vancouver was allowed to mock Bergeron and the Bruins.

    Yeah, yeah, yeah...Bergeron shouldnt have whined to the media. Well, I guess we should tell the Boston and Vancouver media to not ask him to explain what happened. You call it whining, I call it answering a question. Its not as if he brought it up to the reporter.

    But the straw that broke the camels back was the Rome hit on Horton. The tone changed with that hit. It was uneccesary and the Bruins are not just going to sit back and allow any team to take liberties with their teammates.

    KUDDOS to the Bruins for sticking up for their own!

    I would expect Vancouver to respond the same way if, for example, Chara hit Sedin the same way, and he was carried off on a stretcher.

    Boston and Vancouver are playing the same game...using their sticks to slash and crosscheck. To deny that is to stick your head in the sand.

    BOTH teams share the responsibility for what this has regressed to.

    Later
     
  9. Connecticut

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    Re: Lets Call A Spade A Spade

    Jeff I think you've cried wolf once too often. There were not 3 Canucks coming after Marchand, as DH explained. And the idea that Ballard was coming his direction, as if that's some kind of offense, is beyond absurd. Your fabrications about Burrows remind me of your fabrications about Bieksa, and Marchand did not "accidentally" clothesline Ehrhoff, he took advatange of the fact that he didn't manage to get all the way over him (nice try in the first place when you're 5 foot 2). He's a dirty, disgusting player. And I'd love to have him on my team.

    I'm not going to sit here and pretend that you're biased and I'm not. But when you just make things up that suit you there's not really much reason to engage. I'm just going to wait to see what happens in the series and hope for the best.

    As for the suspensions, there is a completely false equivalence between Burrows and Marchand. Burrows actions, whatever you think of them, did not affect the play of the game or the health of the players. Marchand was a malicious attempt to injure (or at least dramatically heighten the possibility of injury), and there is no place for that in the game. Personally I think it was much worse than the Rome hit on some level, because at least Rome's hit was a poorly execute hockey play. Marchand's hit was the exact opposite.
     
  10. maineblackbear

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    Accuse Me All You Want

    Thats fine.

    Peverley said he was crosschecked seconds before by Bieska...and Jones said the same thing. Bieska crosschecked him the back of the head/neck.

    Marchand Burrows are the same guy...just Burrows is a good sized kid.

    My point Connecticut, is NOT to paint either team out to be something they are not.

    BOTH teams have absolutely played dirty, cheap and classless hockey on FAR TOO MANY occasions in this series. Thats all I have been saying. Its a 2 way street. Boston is not gooning this up anymore than the Canucks are.

    Later
     
  11. Die-hard1

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    Re: Nice

    Get off your 'holier than though' horse Jeff - re-read the posts before the series. I said specifically that Boston was the one team from the east I didn't want to face, and it's because they can goon it up like they are. They are a good team, no question, but they are also a bunch of goons. I'm giving them credit for playing the way they need to, in order to win games - I'm not saying I like it (obviously) but I'm giving them credit. You might want to actually acknowledge that - they beat the Nucks fair and square the last two games by making the Nucks play their game, and the Nucks need to be smarter than that. To me that comes down to coaching and to leadership - we'll see what happens in game 5.

    You are correct and I saw video to prove it - the Canucks did slash the Bruins one time without being provoked. That compares to over 30 times for the Bruins.

    And by the way - it's a 2-2 series, it's not a lead for Boston, so quit acting like it's over. It may come back to bite you, just like it has for Canuck fans after these last 2 games.
    This post was edited on 6/9 9:17 AM by Die-hard1
     
  12. Connecticut

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    Re: Accuse Me All You Want

    Honestly, I don't really care what Peverley says (and definitely not Jones) if I have video showing it's not true.

    And like I said in the very first post in the thread 1. The Bruins do deserve credit, and there's nothing wrong with playing dirty if it's going to win you the cup. And it's not that the Canucks are defenseless either, it's just not their strong suit -- they do better when they play between the whistles and hurt you with the powerplay. Right now they're doing neither of these things. If Vancouver was scoring at even a 15-20% rate on the powerplay then things look very different because they're getting more goals, obviously, but also the Bruins have to be more careful when taking liberties. But their powerplay has been ineffective, and lots of credit goes to the Bruins PK.

    I really have no problem with this series. I have nothing to whine about. I'd appreciate it if the people who whined about Burrows would shut up about it, but that's just my preference. I don't need to have a scorecard of who did what to whom and who started it. I will say, though, that it is incumbent on the refs to call penalties when they happen, especially if they affect scoring chances (like Marchand's slewfoot on Ballard on the 3rd goal was a blown call and that sucks). But the Bruins are free to do whatever they can get away with, either because the refs let it go, or because they take a Canuck with them to the box, or because they manage to kill off the powerplay.

    It does no good whining about the mean Bruins. The Canucks need to adjust their game and so far they've failed to do so for 2 games. Luckily they won the first two so it's not the end of the world. I think the Canucks are the better team and I expect them to show it, but if they don't then full credit to the Bruins. They're certainly showing a lot of heart and determination, I just think the Canucks have plenty of that too -- I guess we'll see.
     
  13. m_peroni

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    Boston a dirty team. As if Canucks are not? Burrows slashing Thomas's stick in the crease was cheap and i thought Thomas was too nice on that slash. Had it been Billy Smith Burrows would be sitting out game 5 due to injury.

    Marchand's play on Sedin was dirty, though. That i think was borderline suspension. But this series started to get dirty because of Burrows and Rome.
     
  14. Die-hard1

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    Re: Accuse Me All You Want

    Hey CC,

    The main problem that's getting all Nucks fans, at least the knowledgeable ones, is that they are playing right into Boston's hands. Kes and Burr are yapping after every whistle, and that's something we haven't seen this year. The Bruins are doing everything they can to take them off of their games and it's working.

    The Nucks need to get back to the way they play hockey, not allow the Bruins to dictate the tempo of the games. If they continue to allow this the Bruins will win.

    As you said - let's see which Canucks team comes out in game 5. It's a huge one.
     
  15. Connecticut

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    Re: Accuse Me All You Want

    Totally agree. Perhaps easier said than done, and it would definitely make them feel better if they could also then bury them on the PP. But you're totally correct.
     
  16. Connecticut

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    You know what bothers me about your posts? I expect Jeff to be a homer because, well, he's Jeff... and also he's a Bruins fan. Comes with the territory. I am seeing things through Canucks glasses as well. But you're acting like the biggest homer here (suspend Rome for life?!?) even though you've got no dog in the fight. That doesn't make you impartial. It just makes you wrong but for no good reason.
     
  17. m_peroni

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    I said that to Richards and to Chara as well. I hate those hits. Never liked them. So...it's a personal reaction of mine knowing obviously it's not going to happen.

    At least i'm consistent with what i say and don't show any bias. I've slammed Boston and Vancouver equally this year. No homerism on my part.
     
  18. Die-hard1

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    I will say this about Peroni, I disagree with 95% of what he says, but he does stick to his guns. I believe most of his hatred for head shots is from the Booth hit, and I can't blame him, that was a brutal hit.

    I'm actually enjoying the banter back and forth - I know I'm a homer when it comes to the Nucks, I know Jeff's a huge homer when it comes to the Bruins but we have a mutual respect for each other even when going back and forth over huge games like this - it's what makes this board different.

    PS - I'm at game 5 in Van tonight, 11th row, lower bowl - go Canucks!
     
  19. Connecticut

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    Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds [​IMG]

    I agree though, it helps me get a bit better sense of where my homerism ends and reality begins. Not a perfect sense, but better. Then again, whoever wins, that side gets to be homers for months and tell the other side to stop whining. Funny how it works.
     
  20. maineblackbear

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    Again...BOTH WAYS

    Your post once again makes it out to be a one sided thing.

    1 vancouver slash to 30 Bruin slashes.

    GARBAGE!

    Later
     

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