Suspensions and Their Inconsistency.

Discussion in 'Hockey Talk' started by maineblackbear, Mar 19, 2011.

  1. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear
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    I'm not starting this as a real continuation of the Chara issue. Moreto the point its a simple thread about inconsistency in punishment.

    I'll use just 3 incidents...involving Bruins, as that is what I am most familiar with.

    1. Matt Cooke- Marc Savard...How Cooke didnt get suspended is beyond me. Reputation, the clear raising of the elbow to the head.

    2. Brad Marchand- RJ Umberger...Marchand threw an almost identical elbow as Cooke did. He receieved a 2 game suspension. Personally, I thought he should have been given 5. It was an elbow thrown totally from behind Umberger. Now, some say that it was 2 games because he didnt throw it "hard." But thats BS in my mind. He should have received more.

    3. Patric Hornqvist- Tyler Seguin. Happened a couple nights ago. WORSE than the Marchand shit, IMHO. Marchand was gliding up from behind Umberger and elbowed him. Hornqvist got a 30 foot start and built up growing speed, and threw a fullfledged elbow that caught Seguin square in the left check and the nose. Hornqvist received a $2,500 dollar fine.

    All 3 situations are clear examples of headshots. One received no sanction at all. One receives a 2 game suspension. And the other a meaningless fine.

    What gives on this? Personally I believe all of them deserved more than they received.

    Hell, Danny Paille got more, IIRC, than any of him for his hit on Sawada earler this season.

    Later
     
  2. m_peroni

    m_peroni
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    Do you need glasses?

    Cooke's elbow was nowhere near Savard's head. You're not even close. Watch the replay. You see the top part of Cooke's number 24 on his arm in contact with Savard's head. It was the same as Richards's hit on Booth. Actually, that one was worse because Booth got rid of the puck on the blue line and was looking at the puck going to his teammate, then he was hit, so it was a bit late. Savard was knocked out the immediate moment after he released the puck on his shot.

    So, there is no inconsistency there because both were similar plays that were disgustingly dirty, disrespectful, but during a time when it was within the rulebooks to do it.

    Now, looking at Marchand's hit, i think you are seriously asking for trouble here. How the hell could you even say that Marchand's ELBOW was almost identical to that of Cooke? Jeff, my goodness...you just all credibility here. Look at the replay. Marchand was to Umberger's back, not side, but back, and his ELBOW....yes..his BENT ELBOW...you look at it and it's an elbow hitting Umberger in the back of his head. They are not even close. How could you even make the SLIGHTEST comparison is beyond me. Also, this happened when the head shot rule was in place.

    Hornqvist's elbow was a typical elbowing penalty due to the hit being high. It wasn't to the back of Seguin's head, it was not blind. Seguin pretty much had his head down as well. On one camera angle you see it more as an elbow, but from the camera angle behind the glass it appears more forearm.

    Callahan hit Hamrlik high yesterday. He got penalized for it. What are you going to do? Suspend all high hits?

    Stop being biased, it's ridiculous. You defend Chara's hit, and have the nerve to complain about a high hit that was common?

    Seriously...
    This post was edited on 3/19 8:44 AM by m_peroni
     
  3. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear
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    First off...I am NOT complaining about the hit on Seguin. Its hockey. He took a shot to the head....which, BTW, required his ear lobe to be sewn back on, as well as a fractured nose. However, it you say NO HEAD SHOTS ALLOWED, the you need to suspend for all head shots. Dont pick and choose. Dont suspend Marchand for 2 games, when HOrnqvist delivered a headshot at much greater speed.

    My comnparison to the Cooke shot, was that both players clearly intended to hit their opponents head.

    So, in regards to your comments about the Hornqvist hit...I assume that because it wasnt a "blind" hit that you feel it is okay.

    Then why does the NHL make all hits to the head suspendable? Hornqvist unquestionably hit Seguins head with his elbow...clear or blindside...it should not matter. It was a hit to the head, delivered almost perfectly side on.

    You dont have part of your earlobe detached, or sustain a fractured nose without those parts of the body, which are part of the HEAD, being hit.

    And judging by your use of the word "common" that you believe "common" hits to the head are fine?

    I thought the NHL said ALL hits to the head are suspendable. Why make a rule that you have no intention of enforcing.

    I'm okay with the hit....with the speed of the game you cannot ask the players to make perfect split second judgements.

    Thats why I am fine with Charas hit....with Hornqvists hit. As long as their is consistency in how they are dealt with.

    BTW...I love how you minimize Cookes actions.

    Later
    This post was edited on 3/20 5:32 AM by maineblackbear
     
  4. m_peroni

    m_peroni
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    I think you are broadening the head shot aspect here. Look at the replay. Hornqvist's elbow and forearm (two camera angles provide that) hit on Seguin was illegal, but intent to concuss? No. I mean really...Hornqvist? "I barely play physical" Hornqvist? Seguin had his head down, with the puck. If he had his head up, it would have been a chest hit at best.

    I don't think the hit was okay. He still had his elbow up, but i give the guy the benefit of the doubt. It's not like it was Matt Cooke, who by the way charged at a Ranger on Sunday, and since he was going to miss the hit on the Ranger he clearly stuck out his elbow and just brushed him. That's a guy with a history of being dirty, and he deserves to get suspended. He cost Pittsburgh the game. I don't even know why they still have him on the team. He should not even be playing in the NHL.

    If Hornqvist had a record, then i'd most likely be siding with you, but he is a phlegmatic player. I think he got a warning, period.

    I never said common hits to the head are fine. It was an elbowing penalty. If to player are digging for the puck in the corner, and one elbows the other, then it is a hit to the head, right? But is it suspension worthy? No. It's an elbowing penalty.

    You get broken noses and ears cut with high sticks. Those are four minute penalties. Hits to the head? Yes, with a stick. Suspension? Unless the the stick was sung intentionally to the guy's face.

    The rule has been enforced consistently throughout the season. The GM meetings in Boca were covered by the NHL Network and they showed the stats while interviewing Bettman. The rule has been consistent.

    How can you say you are fine with Hornqvist's hit if you just made a case for a suspension?

    I didn't minimize Cooke's actions at all. I said the facts. Watch the replay, watch where the contact happens. If it happened today, Cooke would be suspended. It happened before the rule, though, so he didn't. It was dirty, i think i made the point clear in my post and you missed it.
     
  5. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear
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    I Would say this...

    You said, "I barely play physical" Hornqvist.

    I say, "impeccable reputation for clean and respectful play" Chara.

    Whats different?

    How am I broadening the headshot aspect? Does the new NHL rule state that ALL shots to the head are suspendable? If not....fine. Pick and choose who you suspend.

    Its to subjective.

    How can Randy Jones get a 2 game suspension for boarding Patrice Bergeron, and yet Max Pacioretty gets away scot-free for potentially ending Mark Eaton's career?

    Later
    This post was edited on 3/21 7:39 AM by maineblackbear
     
  6. Die-hard

    Die-hard
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    Peroni might not be with you Jeff - but I am all the way. I have no idea why Heatley and Marchand get 2 games for a hit that Cooke gets 14-17 games for.

    Don't get me wrong - Cooke is a piece of garbage that has no place in the league, and he's a repeat offender to boot - but is his hit worth that much more?

    As for Cooke's hit on Savard - absolute garbage that it wasn't dirty, or that it was legal at the time. I compare it to many hits that the most gutless player of all time used to throw - Scott Stevens. He's a piece of trash that didn't deserve to play the game, and I say that knowing he was just an amazing d-man. Why he had to keep throwing 'legal' shots at the head of players is beyond me - is he really that much of an a-hole?

    All this said - hopefully this Cooke hit is the beginning of something new and the NHl actually takes issue with players who throw this kind of hit to the head, be it 'legal' or not, giving them larger suspensions. It's something that has no place in the game, and I'd say the same thing if the player was a Canuck.
     
  7. maineblackbear

    maineblackbear
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    Consistency

    Die-hard,

    I am okay with any suspensions the NHL delivers to Bruin players....as long as they are consistent with what other players around the league get.

    To that end, I have to say that if Cooke got the rest of the regular season and the 1st round for his latest escapade, then Marchand should have received 10 games.

    Both threw elbows...granted Cookes appeared to be much more malicious...but thats besides the point. Both TARGETED the head.

    I previously mentioned Randy Jones concussion delivering boarding shot to Bergeron. He received 2 games for that.

    Fine.

    And then you have Max Pacioretty. He took a direct line from center ice...honing directly onto Mark Eaton's number, and with Eaton's back completely turned to him, absolutely unloaded onto him.

    That could have easily been a career ender....he got NOTHING. His coach said the hit was actually Eaton's fault for turning incorrectly.

    Its a joke.

    Later
     
  8. Die-hard

    Die-hard
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    Re: Consistency

    I think Marchand should have got 4-5, given he's a 1st time offender. Cooke deserved what he got, no question there.

    I didn't see the Pacioretty hit on Eaton so I can't comment, however, if he charged him and targeted the head then he should get 4-5 games as well, easily.

    I still have no idea how Cooke got nothing for potentially ending Savard's career. IMHO that was as vicious a hit as the one that Bertuzzi did on Moore, and it may have the same consequence - ending someone's career.
     

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