The Flyers are....

Discussion in 'Hockey Talk' started by Clint27, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Clint27

    Clint27
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    ...feminine cleansing products!!

    The league is going on about how they need the players to take a reduction in revenue sharing; whining about the state of some franchises, then the Flyers go and cut the legs out from under the Predators!! Sure it was a legal offer sheet, but its the spirit of the thing.

    How can Nashville, a small market team, remain viable when they lose both Suter AND Weber?

    14year contract....there should be no out clause for the Flyers if its accepted. Weber had better be paid that money when he's forty...and he should still have to be on the roster.

    Perhaps the league should put in a rule, I know that the players won't go for it though, where if a guy retires and doesn't honour the final years of the contract, the team the guy was signed away from gets a second round pick until the contract is up.

    Although it will be tough, I hope the Preds take the 4 first rounders and leave Philly in tough to find a goalie who will stop a puck!
     
  2. m_peroni

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    It was a blatant move by the Flyers. I am disturbed by it with all the ridiculous bonuses involved. I hope the Preds let Weber walk. The guy is just cashing in.

    I'd have more faith in the Preds with Rinne than in the Flyers with Bryzgalov.
     
  3. rikster

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    On one hand you have poorly run franchises with poor financials who never win but get to stand at the beginning of the line when kids are drafted into the league and recieve revenue sharing from the league ...

    On the other you have well run franchises with good financials who are always competitive and who generate much of the leagues revenues and who pay into the subsidy program and for their good work get to stand at the end of the line when kids are drafted into the league...

    The Oilers said that they were proud to be the first team to draft first 3 years in a row and counting...The Canucks on the other hand are stuck trying to find "the next one" late into the rounds...

    Many have pointed out that if the Preditors take the first round picks from the Flyers, they likely will be picking in the mid 20 range...

    So is the lot in life of the very well run organizations who are the financial glue that holds the league together and who generate revenues for the mis managed....

    So, while I have a real problem with what the Flyers have done, and pleassssssssse stop telling me a player doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding after you've just signed a 14 year or a 13 year contract...does that mean in 4 or 5 years when the team you just signed with isn't competitive you are going to ask for a trade to a more competitive team?...Anyways I think the league needs to address its method of determining the draft order to prevent teams like the Oilers from continually drafting first and finishing near or at the bottom of the league standings....

    When organizations like the Oilers and the Wild and the Panthers and the Islanders are rated as having the best prospect pool in the league, that is just another way of saying they have been a mismanaged organization for far too long....

    In a hard cap league with a floor, there is no reason for teams to take so long to get their act together and every team should have the ability to pick first, regardless of where you finished in the league standings ...

    Take care....


    This post was edited on 7/20 7:09 AM by rikster
     
  4. m_peroni

    m_peroni
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    I partially agree that i don't think a team should be allowed to pick first overall for three years in a row. But, i wouldn't change the system so that a team like the Penguins, who stunk for years, gets a first overall pick when they clearly don't need one.

    I think teams that pick from 6th to 10th are not an issue. You say the Wild?

    Three years ago they picked 16th and four years ago 23rd.

    The Panthers?

    23rd this year.

    3rd and 3rd two years prior in a row.

    Then picked 14th.

    31st, 10th....10th, and 20th.

    The Panthers just picked very well even if you don't count Gudbranson and Huberdeau. Grimaldi, Bjugstad, Howden, McFarland, Petrovic, Markstrom, Drew Shore, and Colby Robak were not picked anywhere near the first 10 spots.

    So you make a poor point by choosing teams that don't back it up.

    The Oilers? Yes. The Penguins when they picked Fleury, Whitney, Malkin, and Crosby? Yes. Those teams shouldn't be allowed to take so many high picks in consecutive years. But the Wild and Panthers have nothing to do with this.

    The Preds? Weber was actually a 2nd round pick.

    This post was edited on 7/20 8:27 AM by m_peroni
     
  5. rikster

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    I think Gillis would take any of those draft spots over what he has to deal with....


    Over the past 3 seasons, only 1 time has any of Florida, Edmonton, NYI, or Minny finished higher than 20th in league standings, and other than Minny which finished 24, 21, 22nd in the league none of the other 3 teams have finished higher than 26th...


    What you illustrate is the mis management is worse than the argument I made because not only are these teams perpetual loosing teams, they have mis managed their draft advantages which begs the question why give to them in the first place?...


    Take care....
     
  6. m_peroni

    m_peroni
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    This is an idiotic argument. What the hell do you mean, why give them in the first place?

    So i guess that Detroit should have been given the higher picks of the Canucks in the mid to late 90s?

    Allen, 4th overall.
    Ference, 10th overall.
    Holden, 12th
    Ohlund 13th

    And the higher pick they had in 1999 later traded to then go up in 2nd and 3rd for the Sedins.

    Every team has busts.

    Mismanagement happens to every team. Happens to every sport. You'd be aroused if the Canucks picked three times first in a row if it had a low budget and a young team in need of rebuild.

    The draft is made so that team can rebuild. Look at the Penguins. They were in financial struggles in the late 70s and early 80s. They got Lemieux. They were again in financial struggles and about to be moved, and now they are one of the best franchises in sports in terms of talent, and they are rich.

    If we applied your method, Pittsburgh would be in the tank while i guess even the Tampa Bay Lightning could have picked Crosby, or Ovechkin, Malkin, or maybe the San Jose Sharks?

    Your arrogant attitude as a Canuck fan whose team is a dominant one in recent years is annoying. Screw the small budget teams! Make the Canucks get a guy like RNH! Or the Rangers get Yakupov!


    I think the NHL and Bettman should have said screw it with the Canadian teams, save Montreal and Toronto, over the equalization program and let them deal with the Canadian dollar, not the USD.

    How's that sound? Fair? No. I'm happy that took place and it helped the Canucks a lot as well, as did hiring Burke as GM to reestablish the team with credibility. Without those two events in Canucks history, who knows what city they would have gone to.
     
  7. rikster

    rikster
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    What I'm suggesting is that it isn't as simple as taking away one of the few remaining benefits of being a large revenue team....


    The difference between the mid 90's and today is as I said in my first post is a hard cap and a floor and revenue sharing...


    And I guess you could add the 3 point games to the argument as well....


    All designed to bring competitive balance to the league...


    But what we have seen post the 2004 CBA is many of the same teams drafting at the head of the class year after year and that is something I think large revenue teams will want addressed in the next CBA...


    History shows that there is no cure to imcompetence...


    How do you even the playing field out for the better run franchises?


    Franchise exemption contracts ...


    Take care....
     
  8. maineblackbear

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    I dont have a terrible problem with this.


    Its a legal move. Is it a tactic that isnt utilized often? Sure. But as long as its on the books....go for it. I actually wish more teams would utilize this.


    Toronto "forced" Boston to trade Kessel to them when Burke threatened to put out an offer sheet to drive his cost up beyond what Boston wanted to pay him. Thats just as "weasley" as what Philly did,


    But, while it doesnt meet the agenda of the NHL and the owners, it is well within the Flyers rights to make this move.


    Later
     
  9. rikster

    rikster
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    I guess where I am drawing the line is now we are talking about reducing the length of contracts....


    I think if the league really wants to make more changes to help the strugglers, then they have to give something to the richer teams which is why I suggest the exemption contracts....


    Take care...
     
  10. Clint27

    Clint27
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    In the Toronto and Boston scenerio a trade was worked out, and that worked out VERY well for the Bruins....as a Leaf fan I'm not complaining about Kessel at all.

    The Flyers KNOW that the Predators can's, or shouldn't, match the offer to Weber. The Preds were on very shaky ground a few years ago and with a competative team, they've attracted fans and have started to do well....then the Flyers come knocking.

    I agree that what they did was within the rules, but, is it ethical? Toronto and Boston are healthy financially, the Preds are not.

    Maybe the NHL should do like the MLB does...they teams losing a player like the Preds lost Suter, get a draft pick after the first round is done, to help keep them viable.
     
  11. m_peroni

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    But even top teams that are rich go through mismanagement and their dar years. The Bruins went through some dark times. They won a Cup. The Hurricanes and the Ducks won a Cup.

    The Leafs may miss the playoffs for another year. This has nothing to do with revenue difference. It's about building a solid team through drafting rather than just trying to buy players.

    The Penguins are the prime example. Albeit they got lucky, but as a team about to fold they revived and now they are quite rich.

    Look at the Blackhawks. They missed the playoffs for how many years? Yet, good drafting, even picking very high two years in a row to get Toews and Kane, led them to a Cup and being financially secured.

    Other teams do not generate much money, but they deserve the chance to have a player to build a team around with. It's up to a good GM to do that. Few manage, most don't make it. It's a tough job.

    I just do not see how there is any logic in your opinion on this. But i do agree on one thing, though. A team should not be allowed to pick first three times in a row and in the top five five times in a row. That is just ridiculous.
     
  12. m_peroni

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    I think RFAs can be signed to 10 year deals. I think UFAs can be signed for no more than 7 years. I find that fair, and that the contracts cannot be constructed as front loaded either.

    A lower end team can offer the same amount as a higher end team. It's then up to the player where to play. I think that will stop teams from overpaying for a player and the player just wanting to cash in and taking the highest bidder.
     
  13. Sir Rodney

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    Nashville Matching Makes The Next While That Much More Interesting.

    Hi Clint,

    I think you made the most telling point when you asked about how Nashville could remain viable if they lost both Suter and Weber. The bottom line is they couldn't. Good on them for matching the Flyer's offer. What they do next remains to be seen but at least they kept two of their three key priorities in place.

    Now the question to be asked is what will the Flyers do next? I think the odds of Doan winding up anywhere other than Phoenix of Philly just went way up.
     
  14. rikster

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    Re: Nashville Matching Makes The Next While That Much More Interesting.

    Good on Nashville for matching...

    Pretty stupid move by the Flyers ...

    Lost respect for Weber, for as much as the owners as a whole look greedy because of the Flyers move, the players look greedy because of the move by Weber...

    And the agents being agents are now saying Nashville should put a NM clause in the offer sheet, yeah right....

    Nashville received $25 million in revenue sharing last season, and if they keep their payroll near the cap floor could receive as much as $30 million in revenue sharing next season so at the end of the day the dollars out aren't as onerous on the Preditors as one might think which is another reason the Flyers look dumb for making the offer...

    Gosh Philly, think it through before you make such a dumb a** move...

    Take care...
     
  15. m_peroni

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    Re: Nashville Matching Makes The Next While That Much More Interesting.

    It was stupid, reckless, and i think this killed a significant trading partner for the Flyers as they shared some deals in past years.

    I think Weber is not worth all that money, i really do not. But, i think Nashville is trying to make a statement that they are willing to play with the big boys in this league and that they feel that they are not too far for a Cup run. Weber has no choice but to play in Nashville, at least for a year or two. Then the Preds may trade him and they will trade him wherever they wish to trade him, which would serve Weber right.

    Philly loses big time on this, and Howson should have waited for this decision to be made because if Nash was still a Blue Jacket, the Flyers would have still been in the sweeps. I think that they will go hard after Doan now, and it wouldn't surprise me if Semin is brought in out of desperation.

    Flyers looked silly in the end.
     
  16. rikster

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    Re: Nashville Matching Makes The Next While That Much More Interesting.

    Gillis and the Nucks were one of the teams who met with Weber, their angle of attack was to offer a 1 year deal which when the Preditors matched would take him to UFA after next season....

    They realized that Weber was anxious to maximize term and dollars under this CBA and he was more interested in that than he was location....

    So they backed off knowing the Preditors would match a term and dollar deal....

    What I don't get is marquee players like Weber always get their money, so why the panic?

    Speaking of Minny, word is the owners are scrambling to get together the signing bonuses for Parise and Suter....

    Take care...
     
  17. m_peroni

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    Re: Nashville Matching Makes The Next While That Much More Interesting.

    I think that plan makes no sense at all to have Weber as a UFA and have other teams possibly outbidding you.

    I don't buy that rumor of the Wild ownership and the signing bonuses for Parise and Suter.
     

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